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Waiting biopsy results

User
Posted 04 Nov 2015 at 17:06

My PSA had only increase from 1.05 to 1.48 in 4 years and have had no problems with urinating but was starting to get some aching discomfort around the anus and scrotum area after having a pee in the morning so went to GP who did a DRE and found it enlarged, firm and with a ridge. He referred me to the NHS Urology Dept and the registrar repeated the DRE and confirmed that it required further investigation. My previous DRE was about 2 1/2 years ago and now clearly I kick myself for not having it done annually at the same time as getting the PSA test.

Request that I had a contrast (enhanced?) MRI scan before biopsies. Went for biopsies today but registrar said that the report was not available (consultants secretary claim yesterday that it was on system?) only the MRI images. MRI seems to show a grey area in the center on RH side but it also seemed to show a grey area following  the inside of the prostate wall at the back. Asked if it was still contained, which he said it was, though without radiologist report that cannot be certain. Was hoping that with the MRI images they would not need to do so many biopsies and only target the grey/abnormal areas. However, I was told I had to have the standard 12 or he would not perform any. Not happy with that, is it still the normal for them to take 12 biopsies when they have a MRI scan indication the target areas?

Anyway, now got to wait and worry for two weeks to see if it is confirmed as PC and if so what the staging is?

Edited by member 04 Nov 2015 at 18:36  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 04 Nov 2015 at 19:14

Hi Rudge, welcome to the site that no one really wants to be on but now that you are here I am sure you will get lots of help.

All I can say is that I had 12 targeted bi-posies taken and will say that wether you have 1, 2, 6 or 12 taken there is the same feelings with the procedure, ie relatively minor discomfort and slight embarrassment. To me there is more need to take a full house of biopsies than just, say, four as the more evidence and facts that can be obtained, the better.

Maybe someone else will say something else to reassure you and I hope that all the results you get will be not too bad.

Regards Chris/Woody

Life seems different upside down, take another viewpoint

User
Posted 04 Nov 2015 at 19:27

Totally agree with the above. Once the procedure has started it makes very little difference whether it is 6 or 12 samples. It isn't all that bad I promise you. I ended up having 3 separate biopsies so the more they do in one go the better. Best wishes to you
Chris

User
Posted 04 Nov 2015 at 19:43

Thanks for the replies and comments. You are both right inasmuch that the more info they have the better understanding as to the nature and progress of the condition.

User
Posted 17 Nov 2015 at 18:36

Got my biopsy results today. As expected I do have PC but not as bad as was expected based on the DRE and MRI scan images indicated which has surprised both me and the consultant.

PSA: 1.4

Gleason Score: 3 + 3 = 6

T Stage: T2 localised in center of RH side about 5% 

1 of 12 samples affected (1%)

Prostate Size/Weight: 60g (or should that be 60 ml?)

The MRI scan indicated the localised area but also showed a grey area along the back wall on the inside face which was also felt during the DRE as being firm, uneven with ridges but it has come out as being totally benign which has totally confused and mystified the consultant.

Based on the DRE and MRI scans I was expecting automatic removal, subject to it having been still contained. However, now the way to proceed is unclear?

I don't like the thought of having any cancerous tissue in my body and the instinct is to just get rid of it but having helped a friend though this last year I know only too well the implications that go with removal.

At the moment I have been offered:

1. Surgery (radical prostatectomy)

2. External Beam Radiotherapy ( EBRT) with/without Hormone Therapy

3. Active Surveillance

At this stage the consultant would be happy to simply the remove prostate but thinks the way forward is to do repeat PSA tests in 3 and 6 months with another MRI scan at the 6 month interval. Subject to what the PSA levels and MRI images reveal make a decision at the 6 month interval as to whether to have a template biopsy? If the PSA levels shoot up then clearly the matter must be reviewed. 

However, based on my previous PSA scores measuring it cannot necessarily be relied on as at 1.4 it is well below the level that most GP's think you have a problem and since I do have PC my PSA level has not been much good as an early indicator of having PC or potentially any possible change in it? Whilst the DRE has clearly shown abnormality fortunately in my case it appears to be benign.

So I am in a bit of a quandary at the moment. Not knowing how long the existing PC has been present it's difficult to know if this is a case that one can simply Actively Surveillance for the next 3 to 6 months or should one just simply get rid of now?

I do have concerns that the traumer of the biopsies may/will accelerate and spread of what may have been a very slow growing PC into faster growing or will start/transfer cells in other parts of the prostate or body?

 

Edited by member 17 Nov 2015 at 18:46  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 17 Nov 2015 at 19:47

Its a difficult decision to make,active surveillence or surgery,i was diagnosed with T3a on R side in September.PSA 5.2(disease 12%)this was after an MRI&biopsy.But initially at my local Hospital the results said T3(enclosed)at that point i was going for Active Surveillance.I then visited Bradford for more advice on paths forward& they had different biopsy results they found T3a(not enclosed).I found the biopsy both painfull&difficult to deal with afterwards,in fact i was 6 weeks before i felt myself again.But without it thy wouldnt have known he extent of the cancer.I decided to have a removal by Robot Assisted Surgery on October 23rd.This was performed in Bradford.I was like you in that i wasnt happy that somthing was growing inside me.But had i visited Bradford&got the same results as Huddersfied AS would have been my route.Im now 3 weeks post operation,catheter free&trying to regain my continence.Surgery is a big step to take as it strikes at the very core of a mans functions.I also weighed up the fact that if i had chosen radiology first i couldnt have surgery afterwards but with the surgery its possible to have radiotherapy if required.Ive a blood test in a weeks time then a review a week later to see how successfull the operation has been.Sorry to be so long winded,i hope i havnt put you off anything& i wish you all the best in what you decide.

Best Wishes

Polarbear2

User
Posted 17 Nov 2015 at 21:52

Hi Polarbear2

 

Thanks for the reply, which was not at all long winded. It does however, highlight just how potentially uncertain the current processes differ between site and how the results are interpreted. What was done at Bradford that was different from your local hospital? Did you have different biopsies there? It certainly seems in your case that seeking a second view/opinion was a very wise position.

In my case I only have the local hospital available and have to trust that despite the DRE and MRI indicating PC at the rear wall that from the biopsies it is benign, I would hope they can't get that so wrong? If I have template biopsies, 20 to 50 needles, that would be done at a different site but that could not be done for several weeks to give time for the prostate to recover the current trauma. Apparently my case will be reviewed by the Urology team tomorrow so must hope that if there is a level of uncertainty that further tests will be sought without delay?

I would not wish to go the radiotherapy route as the first option because as you have indicated you can't then have surgery. Surgery, in my opinion, would seem to be the only clear way for removal but at a cost. You do then still have the radiotherapy route still open to you. 

Two weeks on I still have a few problems from the biopsies and certainly do not look forward to more but if that is the only certain way to get the full picture then so be it.

I am sure that you have made the right decision and trust that your recovery will be both quick and successful and at least it is now behind you. 

Edited by member 17 Nov 2015 at 23:10  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 17 Nov 2015 at 22:12

Hi Rudge
This is only my personal view. If you feel confident with your team and they offer AS , then in my case I would have taken it. Having said that in my case I had every test , biopsy , scan going , and they failed to detect a very nasty cancer indeed. I was offered surgery which I hated the thought of , then RT HT Bracchy which I liked. Then that option was taken away and I was offered surgery only which was too late by far and has left me with HT RT anyway to come. Surgery isn't horrendous at all but it is life changing as a man tbh , even if the side-effects are moderate. Take your time if you can. I think RT HT Bracchy would have been better for me , but hindsight ......
All the best and keep talking
Chris

User
Posted 17 Nov 2015 at 22:44

It is rare for me to say this but I would be so concerned about that grey area and ridged feeling that I would find it hard to trust the biopsy result I am afraid. A doctor's instinct coupled with a good old fashioned hands-on assessment seems more reliable than sticking a pin in the fruit cake and hoping to spear the cherry.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 18 Nov 2015 at 00:09

Decisions, quite rightly, need/have to be made on biopsy evaluation but it does leave me a bit concerned and my consultant mystified.

The grey area at the back wall was well defined but as to how many of the 12 biopsy samples passed through it is clearly unknown but I would trust that whole area has not been missed as it was a clear area to target.

As indicated, I was advised that the Urology Team are going to review my case and I would hope that if there is any uncertainty on the biopsy results that they will question it? Don't know if there are any other tests that can be performed to confirm the results other that further biopsies or possibly a PET scan?

I might fax the consultant to seek the outcome of the review and if the results and decision to Actively Surveillance is sound and sensible? In any event I could not have surgery for at least a further 4 weeks to allow for the prostate to recover but I would be devastated to miss the window of opportunity as a result of errors. When I asked what the tissue was the consultant was unable to give an answer other that it was benign.  

Edited by member 18 Nov 2015 at 00:10  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 18 Nov 2015 at 05:42

hi rudge
it is going to be a tough a choice which ever you choose, wish I could you give you some pointers as how different options affect us, but like a few on here am in the wrong camp, sometimes wonder if its the best one as I don't have decisions to make,
but whatever you choose it WILL be the correct for you

regards
nidge

run long and prosper

'pooh how do you spell love'

'piglet you dont spell love -you just feel it'

User
Posted 18 Nov 2015 at 16:54

Don't know if this would help in your case but you could ask whether a template transperineal biopsy would help at some point. There are many more cores taken and the procedure is usually done under anesthetic and with less risk of infection as entry is not through the rectum. However, there is a little more soreness which lasts longer than with the TRUS method

Barry
 
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